workshop

user:anonymous

_p {aleacol com} {aleacol men} {aleacol ts}

_p  Some of the following comments describe the {b lambdaway project} better than I could do, for instance in [[overview]], [[quick3]] or in [[lambdatalk three]]. Thank you very much.

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{center {show {@ src="http://epsilonwiki.free.fr/alphawiki/data/franchouillard.jpg" height="220" width="220" title="Superman as seen by Marcel Gotlib (http://www.marcelgotlib.com/)."}}
{br}Feel free to comment in [[forum]]}
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_h6 Graham Simkins, 2018/05
_p Lambda Talk is a language that looks like Lisp, but is based on character string processing. The code is literally the text you see, with the parentheses (braces, actually) and all. Evaluation proceeds by term rewriting using textual substitution. The first time I saw it, I was suprised to learn that the evaluator is based on text transform: evaluation is a fixpoint where basically each match of °°"{[^}]*}"°° is replaced by its evaluation. The regex ensures values at the deepest level of nesting are evaluated first.
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_h6 Ward Cunningham, 2018/05/02

_p Alain — Your work here finally connects lambdatalk to my university education which is more aligned with lambacode. I have always been amazed that regexp could evaluate nested definitions because we are taught that regexp “can’t count” and this is proved (for single application of regexp) by the [[pumping lemma|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumping_lemma_for_regular_languages especially]]

_p Lambdatalk reduces evaluation to repeated application of a machine code primitive (regexp) built into javascript.

_p I’m sorry that some feel this to be ugly. I consider it magical. So is your choice of what should and what shouldn’t need to be quoted when mixing text and code as wiki markup.

_p The AST form might or might not have advantages over lambdatalk when directly evaluated. I think your benchmarks show this. The AST can also be a first step toward machine code which we can expect to provide the best performance on available von Neumann machines.

_p Best regards — Ward
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_h6 Claude Parisel, 2016/10/24
_p Dans [la page] "comment" tu devrais me citer... Je suis un admirateur inconditionnel!

_ul [[Claude Parisel|http://claudeparisel.com/monwiki/]]
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_h6 Richard Stallman, 2016/10/10
_p It seems again to be a good hack? Would you like to make lambdatalk a GNU package?
_ul personal mail
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_h6 klipse.tech, 2016/08/10
_p Lambdatalk is really wonderful! 
_ul [[http://blog.klipse.tech|http://blog.klipse.tech//lambda/2016/08/10/y-combinator-app.html#comment-2830829397]]
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_h6 Yehonathan Sharvit, 2016/08/06 
_p Je n'en reviens pas que vous ayez créé un language aussi beau et puissant que lambdatalk alors que toute votre vie vous étiez un architecte. J'étais persuadé que vous aviez fait carrière dans l'informatique... 
_ul [[https://github.com/viebel|https://github.com/viebel]]
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_h6 Andy Hefner, 2016/05/24
_p To my taste, Lambdatalk was one of the cooler things presented at [[ELS 2015|http://epsilonwiki.free.fr/alphawiki_2/?view=syntax_others_ELS_2015]] - primarily on the strength of alphawiki, which demos very well. I confess to not immediately grasping the benefit of building it around a quirky new lisp-ish macro language, but I see now that the lambdatalk syntax and evaluation model lends itself well to freely mingling code, text, and markup with embedded DSLs. 
_ul [[https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp|https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/4kcax0/is_it_so_heretic_to_play_in_the_land_of_lisp_out/?sort=new]]
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_h6 maufdez, 2016/05/23
_p When you first presented the idea of Lambdatalk I thought it was incredibly smart, it does a lot with little code, and it saves you a lot of jumping between files, I think that for a while you included my comment in your web site. I still believe what I said. I guess that your recent examples show how asides from a languange to build web pages it is also a full programming language, I think that that makes it even more interesting, but I think it also makes it a bit confusing to people. There is no heresy on your ideas and/or implementation, and I still think it is an elegant language both on how is used and in how it was written. I hope more people are able to take a bit of time and understand all that you have been able to accomplish, and maybe even play with lamdatalk a bit, I'm sure most of the people in this forum is very intelligent (they are lispers), so if the take the time they will see that is a valid language, which is also lispy. Please don't feel discouraged, I think the problem now is that there is too much information, and people are trying to browse quickly trough it to be helpful to you, and it really needs more time. 
_ul [[https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp|https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/4kcax0/is_it_so_heretic_to_play_in_the_land_of_lisp_out/?sort=new]]
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_h6 sitkack 2016/04/13
_p This is brilliant by the way. Definitely show it to more people and get feedback, it is so outside of the norm that it will take time for the idea to spread. 
_ul [[https://news.ycombinator.com|https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11465163]]
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_h6 Ward Cunningham, 2015/09/10
_p The serious time I've invested comes from you sending me a javascript program, an interpreter that I thought was surprisingly short and employing technique that I was unfamiliar with. Only then did I come to understand the breadth of what you were doing.
_ul personal mail
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_h6 Clay Fergusson 2015/08/25
_p Hello Marty, Lambdatalk is an amazing accomplishment. Did you create that yourself? You should definitely post it on Ycombinator (HackerNews). It should go viral. I am blown away by how cool that is. [...] I recognize this as an amazing accomplishment (assuming it actually works of course!). Keep up the good work. If you did that yourself you SHOULD be a professional coder!

_p He has also written somewhere else that: "EpsilonWiki - Amazing Platform and Technology EpsilonWiki is a general content handling system, having it's own language syntax, it's own rendering engine, and pretty much everything you could imaging in a content system. However it is not directed at being a social media app and standards-based content repository. To the contrary. The author of EpsilonWiki just basically invented everything from scratch and seems to have designed everything from the ground up. He even has his own Mathematical Symbol renderer. To me it looks like this stuff would have taken a decade for a normal person to develop. Not sure how long it took, but I think it was all by one guy and less than a decade, so we should all bow down and admire this accomplishment."
_p {i I cannot have invented that ...}}

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_h6 Ward Cunningham, 2015/08/08
_p What could be a better encouragement for my work than this one: « Alain -- I made a plugin for microtalk and deployed it to my asian wiki, [[testing-microtalk|http://ward.asia.wiki.org/testing-microtalk.html]] and [[Github wiki-plugin-microtalk|https://github.com/WardCunningham/wiki-plugin-microtalk]]. »
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_h6 deleted 2014/../..
_p Nice, fresh approach. I just wish it would use () instead of {}. I am too attached to good old () to let them go. Thank you. Very interesting. 
_ul [[reddit|http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/2cipql/nested_sexpressions_and_regexps/]]
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_h6 Ward Cunningham, 2015/04/26
_p I did take a peek [on your last work]. I see that you are generating both slides and pdf from wiki. I've done this myself and found the results unacceptable. You've clearly made it work. Both the slides and the pdf looked beautiful. Presumably there is deep power in there too. I'd expect nothing less from lisp. 
_ul personal mail
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_h6 Nicolas Hafner, 2015/04/23
_p After the "8th European Lisp Symposium", a [[confession|http://reader.tymoon.eu/article/318]]: « [..] Following the subsequent coffee break we had a talk about Lambdatalk, a lisp-like extensible markup system, that reminded me a lot of my FuncEM project from back when I was still clueless about lisp. It was unfortunately also rather clearly apparent to me that the author didn't have much experience as a web-designer. The previews and examples he showed were stuffed with the kind of design I did when I first started out. Stuffed with shadows, gradients, and all sorts of other effects that don't do anything but distract from the important things. Anyway, before I go off on another rant about bad design, I'll move on to the second talk, [..] » 
_ul by a promising [[22 years old man|http://shinmera.com/]]
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_h6 ELS_2015 reviewer, 2015/03/16
_p Nice, powerful syntax for wikis. Should be an interesting demonstration of Lisp's capabilities, especially if you discuss practical applications that this wiki language lets you do that are difficult with other wiki platforms.
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_h6 Ali Juma, 2014/12/01
_p Thanks for sharing! This is a very interesting use of functional programming and S-expressions. Working with structured data within lambdatalk seems totally reasonable; in fact, in a sense, by representing DOM, it's already playing with structured data. Good luck with continuing to experiment and to evolve this! 
_ul personal mail
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_h6 Steven Levithan 2014/08/18
_p This the answer of a RegExps "guru" to a question about «these smart people who think that one does NOT try parsing with regular expressions.» : {u Nice work, Alain.:D}  Yes, some people seem obsessed with the computer science definition of regular expressions, which in fact is not applicable to nearly any regular expression implementation in modern programming languages. [...] 
_ul personal mail 2014/08/18 
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_h6 ILC_2014 reviewer, 2014/../..
_p I admire the author's enthusiasm and passion for tackling this topic. However, the paper is not acceptable for an academic venue.
_ul [[ILC_2014|../alphawiki_2/?view=ILC_2014]]
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_h6 Richard Stallman, 2014/06/09
_p Lambdatalk is already a good hack. But if it were a real Lisp, it would be better.
_ul personal mail
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_h6 Richard Stallman, 2014/06/09
_p Lambdatalk is neat, but since it does not have lists, it is more of a mocklisp than a real Lisp.  Can you add lists to and give it the real power of Lisp? 
_ul personal mail
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_h6 maufdez, 2014/../..
_p I like it when I find this simple yet powerful ideas implemented, these are the things that when you see them you think, Why didn't I think of that? I think the results you have gotten from it speak by themselves, very nice looking dynamic pages, and very nice looking PDF export. I also liked your presentation on the 7th ELS, I saw a video of it, I was not there.
_ul [[reddit|http://redd.it/1xfsd3]]
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_h6 Ward Cunningham, 2014/04/29
_p I am impressed with this work and understand its uniqueness better now. I have also rambled through other pages you have made, many as experiments I would guess, and have been summarized by you in this single work. Bravo. 
_ul personal mail
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_h6 Darth Toaster, 2014/../..
_p Thank you for sharing this, this is an amazingly innovative project.
_ul [[reddit|http://redd.it/1xfsd3]]
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_h6 Reddit/Bhima, 2014/../.. 
_p This seems to me as if it might be an interesting platform for literate programming.
_ul [[reddit|http://redd.it/1xfsd3]]

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_h6 Reddit/spacebat, 2014/../..
_p Reminds me of John McCarthy's lament at the W3C's choice of SGML as the basis for HTML : « An environment where the markup, styling and scripting is all s-expression based would be nice. »
_ul [[reddit|http://redd.it/1xfsd3]]
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_h6 Amélie Poulain, 2007/04/14
{center {show {@ src="data/amelie_poulain.jpg" height="230" width="500" title="I love ze lambda way :)"}}}
}

{div {@ style="clear:both;"}}

{{hide}

{def rand 
 {lambda {:n}
  {% {round {* 1000 {random}}} :n}}}

{def aleacol    
 {lambda {:mot} 
  {span {@ style="
   font:bold {+ 1 {rand 5}}em georgia;
   color:rgb({rand 255},{rand 255},{rand 255});
   text-shadow:0 0 8px black;
 "}:mot}}}

{def bloc
 {lambda {}
   div {@ class="bloc" style="
    background-color: rgb({+ 192 {rand 64}},
                          {+ 192 {rand 64}},
                          {+ 192 {rand 64}});"}}}         
}

{style °°

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 background:#444;
}
#title { 
 background:#444; 
}
#frame_view {
 width:97%;
 box-shadow:0 0 0;
 background:#444; color:white;
 opacity:1.0;
}
.bloc {
 float:left;
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 padding:10px; 
 margin:0px;
 overflow:auto;
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°°}

_p Your own comments would be appreciated in the page [[forum]]. See also:
_ul [[Reddit|https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/4kcax0/is_it_so_heretic_to_play_in_the_land_of_lisp_out/?sort=new]]
_ul [[Hacker News/lambdaway|https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11465163]]
_ul [[Hacker News/lambda calculus|https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11583450]]
_ul [[lambdatalk_a_dialect_of_lisp_working_in_a_wiki|https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/3zngn1/lambdatalk_a_dialect_of_lisp_working_in_a_wiki/?]]
_ul [[teaching_for_kids|https://www.reddit.com/r/programmingforkids/comments/3k4x7g/teaching_for_kids/?]]
_ul [[teaching_to_10_years_old_kids|https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/3k37ms/teaching_to_10_years_old_kids/?]]
_ul [[ExperimentalLangs/.../lambdatalk_a_dialect_of_lisp_working_in_a_wiki|https://www.reddit.com/r/ExperimentalLangs/comments/3znel1/lambdatalk_a_dialect_of_lisp_working_in_a_wiki/]]